Discover why the 'Yoga Sutras of Patanjali' are commonly misunderstood http://vedicpath.com/Articles/Dhyana.html
Discover why the 'Yoga Sutras of Patanjali' are commonly misunderstood http://vedicpath.com/Articles/Dhyana.html
Father and son, went to a temple, suddenly son shouted after seeing the pillars of Lions at the entrance of the...
Father and son, went to a temple, suddenly son shouted after seeing the pillars of Lions at the entrance of the temple "Run Dad, or those Lions will eat us " Dad consoled him saying "they are just statues and wont harm us" Son replied " if those lion statues wont harm us then how could statues of God give us blessings" The father wrote in his diary... "I am still speechless on my childs answer and have started searching for God in Humans instead of statues. -- A good story which I read today. Not sure whether this has been penned by an agnostic or atheist. But forms a good question for discussion. What do you all think about this?
Advaita philosophy is the path of spiritual suicide. It's nonsense and an offence against the Personality of Godhead.
ReplyDeleteIf advaita were actual vedanta, there could be no diversity, either real or imaginary. I learned that fact two decades ago from carefully studying Vasistha's Yoga, although it's presented with incorrect emphasis therein, declaring the "world-appearance" to be utterly nonexistent. Of course the declaration is self-contradictory.
It is interesting that you consider Advaita to be the only spiritual tradition from India. And you seem quite judgmental in your comments, yet, I see nowhere in Krishna's teachings the condemnation of other traditions. Obviously, you have little or no awareness of the various Shakta, Smarta or host of other traditions that comprise Hinduism.
ReplyDeleteIn fact Krishna states in the Uddhava Gita that he accepts worship in a variety of traditions including Vedic and Tantric. So there is not the judgement that you present in your form of Dvaita.
ReplyDeleteLikewise I find your anthropomorphic association with an avatar to be somewhat naive, as the type that reads a book repeatedly but has no communion with the actual Godhead. If your God is so easily offended by advaita or other tradition, then I would think most would agree that your path is rather immature.
ReplyDeleteWhy would you think I consider advaita to be the only spiritual tradition from India? Advaita isn't spiritual. It's anti-spiritual.
ReplyDeleteKrishna's condemnation of other traditions is given in plenty of Vedic verses, for example in the Bhagavad-gita verse I just quoted on the other thread:
BG 9.24: I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down.
and
BG 9.23: Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way.
Anthropomorphic? No, the Supreme Absolute Truth is a person, Krishna.
BG 7.24: Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.
Krishna is a person, referring to Himself as "mam" ("Me"). He never said the impersonal aspect of reality is superior. Rather Krishna said:
BG 14.27: And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.
The anti-spiritual nature of advaita philosophy:
ReplyDeleteCC Ādi 7.114: "Śaṅkarācārya, who is an incarnation of Lord Śiva, is faultless because he is a servant carrying out the orders of the Lord. But those who follow his Māyāvādī [advaita] philosophy are doomed. They will lose all their advancement in spiritual knowledge.
CC Ādi 7.115: "One who considers the transcendental body of Lord Viṣṇu to be made of material nature is the greatest offender at the lotus feet of the Lord. There is no greater blasphemy against the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Yes, I am familiar with your dogma, but this is not dharma.
ReplyDeleteIt's Sanatana Dharma, not to be confused with mundane conceptions of dharma. Anyway, so-called dogma aside, advaita theory is utter nonsense. It argues that the universe has no reality whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteIn the Padma PurāNa, Lord Śiva is quoted telling Pārvatī:
māyāvādam asac chāstraṁ pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate
mayaiva kalpitaṁ devi kalau brāhmaṇa-rūpiṇā
brahmaṇaś cāparaṁ rūpaṁ nirguṇaṁ vakṣyate mayā
sarva-svaṁ jagato 'py asya mohanārthaṁ kalau yuge
vedānte tu mahā-śāstre māyāvādam avaidikam
mayaiva vakṣyate devi jagatāṁ nāśa-kāraṇāt
"The Māyāvāda [advaita] philosophy is impious. It is covered Buddhism. My dear Pārvatī, in Kali-yuga I assume the form of a brāhmaṇa and teach this imagined Māyāvāda philosophy. In order to cheat the atheists, I describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead to be without form and without qualities. Similarly, in explaining Vedānta I describe the same Māyāvāda philosophy in order to mislead the entire population toward atheism by denying the personal form of the Lord."
Well, as I have indicated before you are entitled to your opinion. But again the different traditions do not agree with you. Likewise, everyone has their little series of quotes to prove or disprove anothers position. But in reality, all that matters is those that can claim to have been to the place they extole. So are you saying that you personally speak for Krishna due to your relationship with Krishna?
ReplyDeleteYogi Baba Prem Yes, it's my duty as a disciple in the Brahma Madhava Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya to deliver Krishna's message as I have received it.
ReplyDeleteTwo decades ago I studied about a hundred yoga texts in the advaita tradition (Vasistha's Yoga was my favorite text, and Ramana Maharshi my favorite teacher), and then when I found and began studying Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Krishna personally appeared and showed me by direct experience that Krishna-prema is immeasurably superior to the samadhi of the advaita school. Bhakti begins with samadhi and advances from there.
Could Kindly confirm what master or Guru confirmed that you achieved Nirguna samadhi in advaita?
ReplyDeleteKrishna. Do you even know what advaita means? Why say which master? Krishna is the only master.
ReplyDeleteIn others words, you don't really know you achieved samadhi of any type, let alone nirguna samadhi, so this is really just your own self proclamation.
ReplyDeleteSo where in the Gita does Krishna state you can say anything, regardless of it being true or not in order to perform your duty?
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting that Krishna would approve someone making any type of claim, based on they think its so?
ReplyDeleteWith that logic, I can say Krishna told me you are wrong, I don't have to prove anything, it is so because I said so.
ReplyDeleteWithin the advaitic tradition, someones claims of samadhi is always verified by a Guru of their lineage.
ReplyDeleteSo it has become apparent that you are willing to make misleading statements (like your samadhi which is only claimed by you to have happened) you state Krishna is the only master, yet you say that you were instructed by a Guru in your lineage. One must stop and wonder what you are willing to say in order to perform your 'duty'!
ReplyDeleteLike you can say the Vedas says 'Vishnu is the highest' but don't really need to have a quote for this, or possibly you would like to use 3.17 Rg Veda to support this, but in reality it doesn't say that. Because, let's be honest, its not about spirituality, its about who is the highest to you and whatever tradition you need to mow over to promote your agenda is ok, because it is your 'duty' to run over others. Afterall, we all want to worship a God that is about belittling the other guy, because the God is so superior and insecure that everyone else must be belittled.
ReplyDeleteKrishna said, "You want to know what samadhi is?" Suddenly everything disappeared. Then I saw Krishna again, and He said "prema," causing pure love to flow through me, which convinced me He is truly God.
ReplyDeleteA guru is a servant.
You're calling me a liar apparently based on nothing but your own reluctance to accept the absolute truth of Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Why are you even talking about an "advaita tradition"? Advaita theory contradicts duality, including traditions. It is a nonsense idea.
I've been citing sastra and giving logical arguments, but you're just doing name-calling.
Please explain how the universe can exist if advaita is the ultimate reality.
Again, so you did not have an advaita samadhi as you previously claimed. I find your comments purposefully misleading, and quite deceptive, if this is how you represent your tradition so be it, it is for the readers of this thread to decide, for me, you have clearly demonstrated your agenda.
ReplyDeleteLikewise, you have refused or are unable to address my query regarding Aditi from the Vedas. Likewise kindly don't play so coy, as if you just quoted shastra, as you called advaita something to the effect of an abomination and non-spiritual, these are hardly shastra quotes.
ReplyDeleteI don't respect your false and misleading claims of ONLY quoting shastra. As I have said, you are entitled to your belief, but the Vedas does not support your position. And there is the possibly that the experience you described could have simply been a hallucination and nothing more. It happens all the time to beginners.
ReplyDeleteI suppose the lesson, is that if your rajas aggression is free of false-ego, then possibly the rajas you receive is free of false-ego and therefore sattvic, per your own logic. It is a two way street, not a one lane road based on your own rules and limited texts.
ReplyDeleteYour claims of advaita not existing again is somewhat silly, certainly a wall exists in nature, yet the nature of the wall is not 'wall', as the vast majority of Upanishads support all of this is Brahman. You seem to not understand that dvaita is a path for those that cannot obtain samadhi with Brahman. Even the advaita tradition honors the dvaita path, you claim to be a student of Ramana, therefore you should know this. But it seems you don't, likely because you were not a student of Ramana but read a book. As Ramana suggested for some to follow the dvaitic path. And Bhakti has its role but your Bhakti has become blinding, in my opinion. It is a legitimate path and has its own qualities, but to think any system is supreme is truly a low state of consciousness, as all the states of consciousness in this world are not the final state only the final for this dimension or loka if you will. One cannot see the truth, when they are obsessed with seeing the truth, this is a Madhu mind, and is certainly nowhere near ekagraha nor niruddha. Likewise, while your tradition focuses on the Gita, it is part of a larger work, the Mahabharata and must be considered within the context of the larger work. Krishna is important and you have every right to worship him, but you don't have the right to belittle other traditions, or call them names. I have kindly touched upon your query, kindly address the Vedic Aditi and Vishnu being an Aditya, as you stated tour philosophy was Vedic. I am studied in many traditional ways to interpret the Vedas and in Sanskrit, therefore, I am comfortable debating the Vedas and Brahmanas.
ReplyDeleteKindly do not waste my time sending the quote on Krishna being Brahman. Rather kindly address my query regarding the Vedas.
ReplyDeleteLikewise the path of Bhakti is to cultivate the Vedic Soma, to provide the fuel for Agni, it is this Agni that digests the spiritual experiences, not the Soma, though the Soma is important in this process. The highest state is not love rather Prem indicates moving from the lower triangle into the anahata chakra, yet people confuse this for the highest as it is so different from their experience, it appears as a major realization, yet it is only a step in the journey, one of many. The follower becomes enamored with the emotion, as the buddhi organizes this new input as best it can, but it is not the highest, as the highest is beyond the buddhi. If you wish it from a Samkhya position it is the Purusha that illuminates the object within the buddhi, but the buddhi retains the thought of 'I', as the 'I' thought transcends ahamkara and must be addressed within the buddhi as well. That is why I can read your experience and know where you are in the process within your own dvaita system.
ReplyDeleteWhile the buddhi organizes the input via the subtle tattvas, it is taken by manas and ahamkara into the emotional state, further confusing the spiritual experience with the field of the mind. This is falsely identified as the highest moving the aspirant further into illusion and emotionalism and further from realzation.
ReplyDeleteOf course these are the teachings of the Vedic Rishi's as I have no thought that is new or original.
ReplyDeleteLokas upon lokas exist, with each sampradaya professing their loka to be supreme further deluding the aspirant from the highest goal. Which takes us to our present day, where westerners with Christian samskaras bring these to their neo-Hindu belief which further deludes the aspirant, as the goal of the sampradaya moves to recruitment, money and expansion. You see so much comes from just moving into the anahata chakra for the aspirant, but what most don't realize is that is easily becomes another spiritual trap or illusion. Taking the aspirant further from the truth rather than closer to Rtam or dharma.
ReplyDeleteBut I do understand that you believe that you have the truth, and yes I take responsibility for calling you a liar, as you knew your comment was misleading. I imagine you have used it many times to influence those that lack knowledge to challenge your claims. Simply put I don't respect deceptive practices from sampradayas. And you lied about only quoting shastra as anyone can read your initial posts, unless you go back and delete them. So the debate as to you being misleading was over before it started and then you lied about ONLY quoting shastra.
ReplyDeleteYogi Baba Prem Regarding Aditi, I didn't see your query. I'm looking now, but maybe it's in the other thread. Please don't accuse me of refusing or being unable to address something when there's no evidence that I saw your question in the midst of your many unfounded personal attacks against me.
ReplyDeleteI am sure you are looking to try and find the Viashnva position so you can parrot it as well, no disrespect intended.
ReplyDeleteIronically my attacks are unfounded, yet yours against advaita are legetimate, this is becoming sad.
ReplyDeleteIs this what you do in life, attack traditions and then become the victim when someone responds. This is becoming quite sad.. You started all of this, we just posted an article on the Yoga Sutras, and you jumped in attacking advaita, while the article is not even on advaita. so you don't even take responsibility for your own actions, what kind of aspirant are you?
ReplyDeleteIf the nature of a wall is not wall, then you should be able to walk through a one unobstructed. Advaita theory is such word-jugglery. Sankaracarya said such word-jugglery will not save you at the time of death, so bhaja govindam.
ReplyDeleteAdvaita tradition claims the dvaita path is useful for the less intelligent. That isn't honoring.
You say thinking any system supreme is immature, but Krishna says bhakti is best:
BG 12.1: Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?
BG 12.2: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.
Now I see a clue about your Aditi question, though I haven't seen the original question yet.
Krishna is the source of Vishnu, not the reverse. Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita:
BG 10.8: I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.
Garga Samhita, canto 1, chapter 3, describes many Vishnu-tattva forms entering Krishna upon His call.
You're description of bhakti is better not read. It's nonsense. Bhakti is spiritual. Obviously you know nothing about that.
You really are unable to address the Vedas issue aren't you. Your logic is silly as even science knows on a molecular and quantum level molecules are leaving your body and passing through the wall, likewise the same is occurring with the wall. Therefore, the wall and you maintain a static state for form, but there remains a dynamic state behind it as well.
ReplyDeleteDon't you ever wonder how you cling to your quotes under the guise of tradition, yet I am able to speak from direct perception. Don't you want to be a knower of truth as opposed to a parrot, spitting out quotes that you desperately cling to for you reality. Your comment is so silly, who expects Shankaracharya to 'save them', there's no saving in Hinduism, there's no saving in Sanatana Dharma, Krishna does not suggest that he saves you. Your Christian samskaras betray you, and take you further from the truth.
ReplyDeleteSo may I ask you a question, have you read the Rg Veda?
ReplyDeleteI mean you seem to think that the presence of form negates something beyond form, I don't really get it as even basic science doesn't support your position regarding form, scientist have been able to transport matter through an object, so clearly this already exists as science is only discovering what already is.
ReplyDeleteActually Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu, LOL, no one believes Vishnu came from Krishna, except for maybe you guys, as this is necessary for the whole thing to work. Krishna is speaking as an incarnated personality, but is an incarnation of Vishnu, but that is quite funny, I do appreciate the chuckle.
ReplyDeleteAnd most seem to know that the incarnation is not the sum total of the deity even though an avatar.
ReplyDeleteYour own quote from the samhita proves that point with Krishna calling attributes of Vishnu into form.
ReplyDeleteYou've been posing many questions and quickly accusing me of not being able to answer them, although my time on G+ is very limited. I have a life away from the keyboard. If there is a question you want me to address that I missed, you should reiterate the question instead of giving a vague reference like "the Vedas issue" and expecting me to try to figure out what you're talking about.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that you've been falsely calling me a liar is ironic, which I can appreciate, and I also appreciate your relieving me of my burden of sinful reactions that way, taking them yourself. In other words, your blasphemous insults are a boon to me, but make me feel more sorry for the difficulties you will have to endure as a result.
I see you seem to have tried arguing that walls don't exist. Yeah, that's crazy. Do you think floors exist? How about computers? Do people exist? LMAO.
You asked me what guru of the advaita tradition recognized my samadhi. There is no guru of the advaita tradition, only fraudulent pretenders and madmen. Only a Vaisnava can be a legitimate guru. My experience of Krishna consciousness was favorably acknowledged by my guru, Bhaktimarga Swami, and by another swami Bhagavata Maharaj, for example. The chief impression I have from experiencing nondualist samadhi was that it's insignificant compared to love of Krishna.
As Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said:
CC Ādi 7.97: "Compared to the ocean of transcendental bliss that one tastes by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the pleasure derived from impersonal Brahman realization [brahmānanda] is like the shallow water in a canal.
Krishna said Himself in Bhagavad-gita that He is the supreme origin of all. It's also described in Garga Samhita, and explicitly stated in Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.28. Worship of Vishnu is transcendental but inferior to serving Krishna with love.
Anyway, considering advaita beliefs, it's not clear how you can say anything exists to distinguish one from another, or even to eat.
You seem to have plenty of time to criticize others in your 'limited time'. Advaita never took the position that material matter isn't real, rather there is a reality behind matter. I would have thought an 'advaitic expert' as you claim to be would have known that. And by the way, you still haven't answered the query regarding Aditi, as the Vedas is the final authority in the Hindu tradition. Why haven't you answered it, because you have no answer. All you can do is parrot what you have been told and take refuge from your insecurity that you somehow belong to a 'superior' religion. And you are so insecure that you can have any self-esteem by belittling other traditions, and pretending that yours is somehow superior and everyone else is something less, you might as well be a Southern Baptist or fundamentalist, based on your fear of not having achieved the highest.
ReplyDeleteBuddy, you are the one that brought up Vedic, and my reference isn't vague, it is commonly known that the Adityas are born of Aditi, it is commonly known that Vishnu is an Aditya. As Aditi represents undivided consciousness and the Adityas divided consciousness, how do resolve that the Vedas, which is the authority in Hinduism-except in your little dvaitic world, clearly states that there is a state of undivided consciousness--aditi. Kindly present your Vedic references (from the Vedas) to support your claim, as you claim that your dvaita is Vedic, so kindly show where its at in the Vedas itself. Or let us understand that once you again you have proven to be a liar that only has the ability to quote and misquote a handful of texts.
ReplyDeleteYou continue to cling to the silly notion that the presence of matter negates consciousness somehow. You demand physical proof, yet you personally have actually have no proof of molecules, you just believe some called a 'scientist' that this is true. You have no physical proof that you have a mind, that you are not just an organic mass of cells, yet you accept there is a mind. You require proof physically when it suits your agenda and turn a blind eye when it does not. Yet, the Taittiriya Upanisahad, states that Brahman is the cause of the universe. The Rg Vedas, states that 'desire first arose in it' meaning Brahman as the foundation of all creation. 10.129 The beginning is the emergence of cause within Brahman and the effect of the cause became the material loka. Now your quote you will give is that Krishna is Brahman, of course, all is Brahman. Suddenly your dvaita text becomes advaitic as Krishna proclaims oneness with Brahman. The funny part is that you don't have oneness with Krishna, that's really the rub. So kindly demonstrate where the Rg Vedas say's Krishna is the highest, as these are the oldest Sanatana Dharma texts and contain all the truths. Again, you don't want the truth, you just want your God to be the highest and devalue everyone else's path.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Yoga Sutras, your attempt to take that which cannot be defined--Brahman and limit it to form is Vikalpa, but when Vikalpa is used this way it becomes Viparyaya in other words false.
ReplyDeleteEven the most elementary translation of the Upanishads supports this same concept, such as the Isha Upanishad, which states that the supreme has two states: 1) immovable and moveable, and eternal mutability, stillness and movement. As it is complete within itself and all moves within it. 1.4 The upanishad continues to say, 'the face of truth is covered with a golden disk, uncover it so that I may see the truth, o' Pushan', 1.15 it goes on to say '....whosoever is that person so am I.' 1.16 Or possibly you would like to address 'sarvam brahmopanishadam maham brahma nirakuryam ma ma brahm nirakarot aninakaranam astu anirakaranam mestu---All is the Brahman of the Upanishads.... Or possibly you would like to address the Kena Upanishads that knowledge of a things arises through the senses but Brahman is not reached by either. 1.3 or possibly 1.5 where Brahman is the absolute and Ishvara is the indwelling spirit. Or what of the AUM being the symbol and sound of the manifested Brahman in the Katha Upanishad. And of course the Brihadaranyaka that states 'all is one. We can do this all day, if you wish. The point is that you can have your belief, but you don't have the right to condemn other traditions. Possibly you would like something from the Shaivite tradition, from the Shiva Purana, where Brahma and Vishnu were talking about who was the greatest and a massive Shiva lingam appears to which they can find no beginning or end, and it is revealed that Shiva is the lord of Brahma and Vishnu. Or maybe you prefer the Shakta tradition, that has their own hierarchy and tradition. All of which have their Maha lokas, and Maha Mantras, but are not arrogant to proclaim to be the only possible truth.
ReplyDeleteHere is an example of why your faith is fanatical.
ReplyDeleteIslam is also Vaishnavism.
Srila Prabhupada: Islam is also Vaishnavism.
Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaishnavism.
Srila Prabhupada: No, no. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu talked with the Pathanas (Muslims). He proved that “Your religion is Vaishnavism.” (Morning walk. Bombay, 17/02/74)
Srila Prabhupada: Then Islam is Vaishnava dharma (religion) in a crude form like Christianity.
(Room conversation. Tehran, 14/03/75)
In these two Statements, Srila Prabhupada explains that the Is amic religion is also teaching how to become a servant of only one God and surrender to Him with love and devotion. One can cultivate the same knowledge in the Vaishnava religion but with more detailed information. In Vaishnavism, one can learn how to de velop his eternal loving relationships with the Supreme Lord. Although Dr. Patel could not accept that Islam is also Vaishnavism, Srila Prabhupada explained that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, in his conversation with the Pathana Muslims, proved by quoting from the Holy Qur’an that Islam is also Vaishnavism. At the end of his conversation all the Pathana Mus lims, including the great Muslim Scholar and prince Vijuli Khan, accepted the fact that Vaishavism is a true religion teaching complete surrender to the will and desire of God, which is the meaning of Islam. Later on in 197S, in Tehran, Srila Prabhupada explained that Islam is a simplified form of the Vaishnava religion. Why? Because the Holy Prophet Muhammad taught his people according to time, place, circumstances and their intellectual level. He himself clearly said, “I received two kinds of knowledge: one of these I taught — but if I had taught them the other, it would have broken their necks.” (Nadarbeg K. Mizra, Reincarnation and Islam, Madras, 1927, p. 4)
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A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on ISLAM
Akif Manaf J., Ph.D.
DKBT - THE DABIR KHAS BOOK TRUST
“Certainly God will send to my sect at the end of every hundred years,
a person who will renew my religion.” (Prophet Muhammad)
“Chaitanya Mahaprabhu proved devotional Service from the Qur’an.
So it requires a devotee who can explain God from any godly literature.”
(Srila Prabhupada)
Dedicated to an Eternal Spiritual Master
who can save the entire universe
Contents
1. Islam is also Vaishnavism
2. Islam means Submission
3. God sends His messengers
4. Parampara — Disciplic succession
5. The Qur’an
6. The Qur’an is also shastra
7. The knowledge must be scientific
8. The Muslim religion is based on a conception of God
9. The Muslim religion is also bhakti-yoga
10. Guru — Spiritual master
11. Hazrat Muhammad is shaktyavesha-avatara
12. Hazrat Muhammad is an acharya
13. Hazrat Muhammad is an authority
14. Hazrat Muhammad is a devotee of God
15. Hazrat Muhammad is a servant of God
16. Hazrat Muhammad is the perfect holy man
17. Hazrat Muhammad preached God-consciousness
18. Hazrat Muhammad teaches according to the class of men
19. Hazrat Muhammad could hear God
20. The Muslims are also Vaishnavas
21. A planet where pious Muslims go
22. Animal slaughter
23. God is a person
24. God is not formless
25. God can be seen
26. God is not material
27. Allah is a name of God
28. The ultimate goal is to love God
Introduction
Religion is meant for peace, not war.
Again and again God has sent His messengers to this material world to re-establish religious principles. Different messengers have revealed different scriptures in different languages accord-ing to time, place, circumstances and the intellectual capacity of the people. In this way the Vedas, Avesta, Torah, Bible and Qur’an were made available for the benefit of mankind, to bring them closer to God. Despite the different languages and different ages in which these scriptures were presented, the knowl-edge and guidance is essentially the same. That is:
ReplyDelete1. God is one
2. Everyone is a servant of God
3. Everyone has an eternal relationship with God
4. The primary duty of everyone is Service to God
5. The goal of human life is to develop love of God.
As far as the process of each scripture is concerned, some details and rituals differ, but in essence it is all the same. Every messenger of God came to this mortal world to remind us that we should always remember God, serve God and love God. Therefore, religious principles are meant for peace and prosperity, not war. Vaishnavism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Chris-tianity and Islam are all meant for uniting people, not dividing them.
“In the vase there is a variety of flowers, and that variety helps us better appreciate the idea of flowers. That is called unity in diversity,” said Srila Prabhupada. But because of misunderstanding, misinterpretation and deviation from the revealed scriptures, hundreds and hundreds of sects have already appeared, even within the same religious communities, what to speak of other communities. People quarrel, fight and kill each other under the name of reli-gion. So much degradation. There is no peace and prosperity on this earth. How can we gain the peace and prosperity that everyone is searching for? In this dark age of quarrel and hypocrisy, God has sent us His most merciful servant, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, to re-establish true religious principles and unite all the religions under the non-sectarian, nonmaterial, transcendental flag of love of God.
As a humble saint, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada never criticised any religion or any bona fide representative of any religion. Some people say Srila Prabhupada was a genius, some say a great religious teacher, some say a friend like no other, but Srila Prabhupada said: “I am simply a servant of a servant of a servant of God.” By re-establishing the Absolute Truth as it was, as it is, and as it always should be without adding or subtracting anything from the way it was presented to him, he began an international movement that has already united people of all religions, nations, ages, etc.. Thanks to his compassion and struggle, souls from all walks of life: scientists, businessmen, philosophers, laborers, housewives and students are all marching under the united nations transcendental flag of love of God.
In this work we present Statements by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on Islam taken from his books, lectures and conversations. We sincerely hope it will help people develop a proper understanding of interreligious connections, ” unity in diversity .”
1. Islam is also Vaishnavism
Srila Prabhupada : Islam is also Vaishnavism.
Dr. Patel : Mohammedanism is not Vaishnavism.
Srila Prabhupada : No, no. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu talked with the Pathanas (Muslims). He proved that “Your religion is Vaishnavism.” (Morning walk. Bombay, 17/02/74)
Srila Prabhupada: Then Islam is Vaishnava dharma (religion) in a crude form like Christianity.
(Room conversation. Tehran, 14/03/75)
In these two Statements, Srila Prabhupada explains that the Is amic religion is also teaching how to become a servant of only one God and surrender to Him with love and devotion. One can cultivate the same knowledge in the Vaishnava religion but with more detailed information. In Vaishnavism, one can learn how to de velop his eternal loving relationships with the Supreme Lord. Although Dr. Patel could not accept that Islam is also Vaishnavism, Srila Prabhupada explained that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, in his conversation with the Pathana Muslims, proved by quoting from the Holy Qur’an that Islam is also Vaishnavism. At the end of his conversation all the Pathana Mus lims, including the great Muslim Scholar and prince Vijuli Khan, accepted the fact that Vaishavism is a true religion teaching complete surrender to the will and desire of God, which is the meaning of Islam. Later on in 197S, in Tehran, Srila Prabhupada explained that Islam is a simplified form of the Vaishnava religion. Why? Because the Holy Prophet Muhammad taught his people according to time, place, circumstances and their intellectual level. He himself clearly said, “I received two kinds of knowledge: one of these I taught — but if I had taught them the other, it would have broken their necks.” (Nadarbeg K. Mizra, Reincarnation and Islam, Madras, 1927, p. 4)
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Muslim tradition, a part of the “Heavenly Book” which is kept under the Throne of Allah was revealed to the Holy Prophet Muhammad in the Arabic language. More than this, the Holy Prophet Muhammad once had miraj, or the experience of “ascending” to heaven.
And after penetrating the 7th layer of heaven, he visited the Throne of Allah and received divine knowledge from Him. This divine knowledge given by Allah to the Holy Prophet Muhammad was in three parts:
1) The knowledge that Allah ordered the Holy Prophet Muhammad to conceal from others and keep for himself
2) The knowledge that Allah allowed him to choose whether or not to conceal or reveal to others
3) The knowledge that Allah ordered the Apostle to communicate to all members of his ummah (community). (Geo Widengren. Muhammad, the Apostle of
God, and His Ascension. Uppsala, 1955, p. 108)
In this way, the Holy Prophet Muhammad got part of the unlimited spiritual knowledge and at the same time was ordered by Allah to conceal some parts of this knowledge.
Thus from statements of the Holy Prophet and from his life, we can understand that he withheld some confidential knowledge about the Supreme Lord. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada said that Islam is simplified Vaishnavism. By these words Srila Prabhupada had no intention to discredit the Islamic religion. He actually had all respect for Islam as we will see later on. That is why he said that Islam is also Vaishnavism. But what Srila Prabhupada meant is that not all aspects of Vaishnava philosophy were revealed by the Holy Prophet Muhammad, as he himself states.
2. Islam means submission
Yoga student : In fact Muslims object to their religion being called Mohammedanism because it implies that they worship Muhammad, whereas in fact they feel that they go straight to God, to Allah, and that Muhammad simply was a messenger.
Srila Prabhupada : That’s good.
Yoga student : And they call their religion Islam, which means submission.
Srila Prabhupada : That’s very good.
Yoga student : The Muslim is he who submits.
(Room conversation. Tehran, 14/03/75)
Srila Prabhupada : Religion means to surrender to God. It doesn’t matter what religion you profess. It doesn’t matter. But you must learn how to obey the Supreme Lord. That is religion. Religion does not mean that you stamp some stereotype religion, “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Buddhist,” and then fight. That is not religion. That is fanaticism. Religion means how one has become devoted to God. That is religion.
You claim to be religious, or you claim to be Hindu or Christian or Buddhist. That’s all right But do you know what is God? Oh, everyone is silent. He does not know what is God. And what is his religion? If you do not know what is God, a vague idea, that is not religion. You must know what is God. Just like to become an American citizen, it requires you to know something of the history of America. So ask an American citizen, “What are you?”
ReplyDelete“Now, I’m American.”
“Who is your president?’
“I do not know.”
What is this nonsense American? Would you like to hear from him, “I do not know who is my president.” Similarly, a human being professing some certain type of religion, but if you ask him, “What is God?”
Religion must be in relationship with God; any religion. But ask him, “What is God?” No answer. But religion means yato bhaktir adhoksaje — by practising it, one becomes a devotee of the Lord. That is religion, First-class religion. (Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam. 9/01/74)
Srila Prabhupada: Religion means obedience to God. Religion does not mean anything else. You can manufacture so many formulas and theses. But the real meaning is obedience to God. That is religion. Simple definition. If a man is obedient to God, it doesn’t matter to which religion he belongs. He may be Christian, he may be Hindu, he may be Mussalman. It doesn’t matter. Religion means obedience to God.(Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam. 12/12/73)
Here Srila Prabhupada again and again emphasised that religion means surrender to or obedience to God. Islam also means full surrender to the will of God. Many times the Holy Prophet Muhammad explained that everyone is a banda, or slave of Allah and must obey His order. We should understand our original, constitutional position as servants of God and by following His instructions we will develop our eternal loving relationship with the Supreme Lord.
People should not just put arubber stamp on themselves, “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim” and then fight. This is not a religious activity but fanaticism born from ignorance. Another meaning of Islam is “peace.” Islam must bring peace, not war. If someone under the name of Islam advocates war, this means he has misunderstood or misinterpreted Islam. We should not be bewildered by such unscrupulous interpreters, rather we should follow true, eternal Islam, which will bring universal peace to the world. In the beginning of his preaching, the Holy Prophet Muhammad and his followers were severely persecuted by Meccan leaders. The Holy Prophet tolerated and taught his followers to be tolerant and forgiving towards their persecutors. Later on when Meccan leaders decided to kill the Holy Prophet Muhammad, he escaped to Medina. There the number of Muslims rapidly increased, and the Meccans decided to march upon Medina and kill all the Muslims. This time the Holy Prophet got a revelation from God that sanctioned fighting and killing for the purpose of protecting religious principles. Thus it is stated in the sura “Al-Baqarah” or “The Cow” of the Holy Qur’an (2.190-193):
“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution is worse than slaughter, but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.
But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more persecution and the religion becomes Allah’s.”
Prominent Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali comments :
“War is permissible in self-defence, and under well-defined limits. When undertaken, it must be pushed with vigour, but not relentlessly, but only to restore peace and freedom for the worship of Allah. In any case, strict limits must not be transgressed: women, children, old and infirm men should not be molested, nor trees and crops cut down, nor peace withheld when the enemy comes to terms.” (Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur-an, Al-Madinah, 1411H, p. 79)
ReplyDeleteThis is the actual meaning of Jihad, or Holy War. If an enemy is attacking one with deadly weapons, with the intention to destroy or impede one’s religious activities, one can fight and kill for the protection of religious principles. However, nowadays, many leaders are advocating war under the name of jihad. They are using religious terms to promote political ambitions. They dress themselves as religionists, but actually they are atheists. People should be very careful not to be victimised by such dishonest and misguided leaders.
So, in Medina, the Muslims were attacked many times by Meccans and despite having smaller numbers, they always emerged victorious. During these wars, the Holy Prophet Muhammad gave special orders that Muslims should not kill monks, children, women, old and helpless people. Once after battle, the Holy Prophet saw dead women on the battlefield. He became very upset and chastised his followers.
Finally, despite severe persecutions and wars, the Holy Prophet Muhammad conquered Mecca and entered the city with a huge army without shedding any blood or taking revenge upon his persecutors; instead he forgave them. This is how the Holy Prophet acted.
In conclusion, the Holy Prophet Muhammad said: “The most excellent Jihad is the uttering of truth in the presence of an unjust ruler.” (Mishkat, 17)
Muslims should learn from his example and follow his instructions without deviation. Thus by following the orders of God revealed in the scriptures and surrendering unto Him, everyone will become obedient servants of God and develop their loving relationship with Him.
Once the Holy Prophet Muhammad shed light on another aspect of Jihad. He said:
” The most excellent Jihad (Holy War) is that for conquest of self .”
(Abdullah Al-Mamun Al-Suhrawardy, The sayings of Muhammad, London, 1905, p. 27)
Here is a good description of Jihad. The Holy Prophet Muhammad himself explained that Jihad means fighting and conquering the impurities of consciousness. It is not that one should fight with the enemy on the outside. No. Actually, one should fight with the enemies that is inside. Who are these internal enemies? They are lust, greed and anger. These are three gates leading to hell. One should fight and conquer these enemies. Jihad may require fighting in Allah’s cause, as a form of self-sacrifice. But its essence consists in:
1) true and sincere faith, which so fixes its attention on Allah, that all selfish or worldly motives seem insignificant and fade away, and
2) enthusiastic and incessant activities, involving the sacrifice of one’s life, or wealth, in the service of Allah. Mere brutal fighting is opposed to the whole spirit of Jihad, while the sincere scholar’s pen or the preacher’s voice or the wealthy man’s contributions may be the most valuable forms of Jihad. This is the inner, esoteric meaning of the term Jihad, Holy War.
3. God sends His messengers
Srila Prabhupada: When our constitutional position or dharma has deteriorated due to the contaminations of matter, the Lord Himself comes as an incarnation or sends some of His confidential servitors. Lord Jesus Christ called himself the “son of God,” and so he is a representative of the Supreme. Similarly, Muhammad identified himself as a servant of the Supreme Lord.
Thus whenever there is a discrepancy in our constitutional position, the Supreme Lord either comes Himself or sends His representative to inform us of the real position of the living entity. (On the Way to Krishna, Ch. 2)
ReplyDeleteHere Srila Prabhupada explains the universal law of the Supreme Lord. Whenever religious principles deteriorated to the influence of the illusory material energy, God sent some of His confidential servants like Jesus Christ or Hazrat Muhammad to inform people of their real position as eternal servitors of God. In this way, Moses and Jesus were sent to Jews and Hazrat Muhammad to Arabs to re-establish the eternal religious principles that everyone is a servant of God and should serve Him with love and devotion. Each messenger of God accepts the authority of the previous messengers and scriptures.
The Holy Qur’an (2.285) expresses this principle in the following way:
“The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believes in Allah, His angels, His books and His messengers. ‘We make no distinction (they say) between any of His messengers.’”
The prominent Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali comments :
“It is not for us to make any distinction between one and another of Allah’s Messengers: we must honour them all equally, though we know that Allah in His wisdom sent them with different kinds of missions and gave them different degrees of rank.” (Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur-an, Al-Madinah, 1411 H, p. 132)
Thus the Holy Qur’an accepts all previous scriptures and messengers. It is explained here that the messengers of God accept the Supreme Lord, His angels (who are administrating material affairs), scriptures (sent by God through His different representatives) and all of God’s other messengers. They never discriminate between any of His messengers, which means that they never say, ‘This messenger is better than another,” or “We accept this messenger but do not care about that one.” Thus we should understand that God sends His messengers or representatives to different nations to preach the Absolute Truth according to time, place and circumstances.
The Holy Qur’an (12.2) explains this point in the following verse of sura “Yusuf,” or “Joseph”:
“We (Allah) have revealed it, a Lecture (Qur’an) in Arabic, that you (Muhammad) may understand.”
Allah explained here that He revealed the Qur’an in Arabic so that the Holy Prophet Muhammad may understand it and convey it to other Arabs. Allah, time after time, reveals His eternal message to different prophets in the appropriate language. Although the linguistic expressions and terms are different, the essential knowledge is the same:
1) God is one
2) Everyone is the servant of God
3) We must serve and love God
4) And to do so, we must chant His holy name.
This is the universal message of God contained in all scriptures.
Furthermore it is stated in the sura “Al-Baqarah,” or “The Cow” of the Holy Qur’an (2.253):
“Those Messengers we endowed with gifts, some above others: to some of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour).”
Thus, different gifts and different modes of procedure were given to Allah’s messengers through the different ages, and perhaps their degrees are also different. According to the supreme plan of the Lord, different personalities appear in different parts of the world to deliver the eternal message of God to the nations.
In the Tafsire Kassaf(Jild 3, Chapter 60) 4th Khalifoi Islam, son-in-law of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Hazrat Ali said:
“Allah-Taala sent one black coloured nabi (one who delivers the message of God) whose name is not mentioned in the Qur’an.” (Tafsire Madarek, Juj 2, Egypt, p. 65)
In the sura “Al-Baqarah,” or ‘The Cow” of the Holy Qur’an (2.136), we find the following verse:
“Say you: ‘We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, to the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) the Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we submit to Allah.’”
ReplyDeleteHere we have the creed of Islam — to believe in:
1) the one universal God
2) the message that has come to us through the Holy Prophet Muhammad and the signs (ayats) interpreted by him
3) the messages delivered by other prophets in the past. These are mentioned in three groups:
(1) Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes; of these Abraham apparently had a scripture
(2) Moses and Jesus, who each left a scripture
(3) other scriptures, prophets, or messengers of God, not specifically mentioned in the Holy Qur’an. Their message in essence was one, and that is the basis of Islam.
In the Tarikhe Hatndan, Chapter Babul Kaf, the Holy Prophet Muhammad mentioned one divine personality who descended in India. He described his colour and gave his name. These are the words of the Holy Prophet Muhammad:
“In India one black coloured nabi advented and his name was Kahan.”
In the opinion of the prominent Muslim scholar Alhaz Ahmad Tofic, the person mentioned by the Holy Prophet Muhammad in the Tarikhe Hatndan is Krishna, who appeared in India 5,000 years ago, whose colour was blackish and who delivered to mankind the message of God, famously known as the Bhagavad-gita.
Another interesting piece of evidence was given by one of the close associates of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, namely Ab’uhurairah. According to Ab’uhurairah, the Holy Prophet of Islam said:
“Certainly God will send to my sect at the end of every hundred years, a person who will renew my religion.” (Mishcat-ul-Masabih, Calcutta, 1809, p. 62)
One example of such renewal is recorded in a very exciting conversation about the Holy Qur’an between Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Abdullah Pathana about 500 years ago. In this conversation the Hidden Treasure of Al-Qur’an was again revealed to mankind. (Anyone interested can read The Hidden Treasure of Al-Qur’an by Dr. Akif Manaf J.)
Another incident involving Chaitanya Mahaprabhu took place when the Muslim King of Bengal, Ala’ uddin Saiyad Hussain Shah (1498-1511), heard of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s influence in attracting innumerable people. He said: “Such a person, who is followed by so many people without giving them charity, must be a prophet. I can surely understand this fact.”
Then Hussain Shah ordered the magistrate: “Do not disturb this prophet out of jealousy. Let him do as he wills wherever he likes.”
Later, in private, the King inquired from his minister, Dabir Khas, about this personality, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Dabir Khas replied: “This prophet always desires your good fortune. By his grace, all your business is successful. By his blessings, you will attain victory everywhere. Why are you questioning me? Better that you question your own mind. Because you are the King of the people, you are the representative of the Supreme. Therefore you can understand this better than me.”
The King said: “I consider Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to be a divine personality. There is no doubt about it.” (Chaitanya-charitamrita, Madhya-Lila, Chapter 1, Texts 168-180)
4. Parampara — Disciplic succession
Srila Prabhupada: If Muhammad is the servant of God and Jesus Christ is the son of God, then where is the break of the disciplic succession. After all the disciplic succession is beginning from God, so how do you find that there is no disciplic succession? If the original tree has branches, twigs and leaves and they are in touch with the original tree, it is all right. The test is whether the line is in touch with the Supreme — that is all.
Although Muhammad and Jesus Christ appeared in the Kali Yuga (the present age of quarrel and hypocrisy) their instruction is as it is because the persons to whom they had to speak could not understand any more and they find it difficult to understand even that much. (Letter 19/07/70)
ReplyDeleteHere Srila Prabhupada explains the very important con-ception of parampara from the Vedic literatures. Parampara means disciplic succession, or chain of self-realised souls who convey spiritual knowledge without adulteration. The absolute knowledge descends through generations of spiritual masters and disciples. The topmost disciples become preceptors and pass on the teachings to their disciples. Parampara, or disciplic succession begins from God. The Holy Prophet Muhammad received knowledge of God through the archangel Gabriel; therefore he is in the line of disciplic succession.
According to tradition, it was the practice of the Holy Prophet Muhammad to retire from his family to a desert cave for meditation for one month every year. His place of retreat was Hira, a desert hill not far from Mecca, and his chosen month was Ramazan (December), the month of heat. It was there, one night towards the end of his stay, that the first revelation came to him when he was forty years old. This happened on the seventeenth day of Ramazan month (22nd of December, 610). That date is since named Al-Gadir, “Night of Power”.
Hazrat Muhammad was asleep when he heard a voice calling him. When he opened his eyes, he saw a bright dazzling light and fell unconscious. When he regained consciousness, he saw an angel in the likeness of a man, carrying a written document enveloped in precious silk. The angel said, “Read!” He replied, “I cannot read.” Indeed he was illiterate.
The angel placed the document on his chest. Hazrat Muhammad felt as if a mountain had fallen upon him and thought that he would die of suffocation. Then the angel lifted the document and repeated, “Read!” He replied, “I cannot read” but again the angel pressed him even stronger than before. A third time the angel commanded in a more terrible voice, “Read!”
“What have I to read?’
The angel said:
“Read: In the name of your Lord Who created,
Created man from a clot.
Read: Your Lord is Most Bountiful,
Who taught by the pen,
Taught man that which he knew not.”
( The Qur’an 96.1-5 )
Hazrat Muhammad submissively repeated the words, and they remained “as if inscribed in his heart.” He went out of the cave, onto the hillside, and heard the same awe-inspiring voice say, “O Muhammad! You are Allah’s messenger, and I am Gabriel.” Then he raised his eyes and saw the angel standing in the sky above the horizon and again the dreadful voice said, “O Muhammad! You are Allah’s messenger, and I am Gabriel.” Hazrat Muhammad stood still. Due to the brightness of the light, he turned his face away, but in whichever direction he would turn his face, the angel always stood there confronting him. He remained standing there for a long time until the angel vanished. Thus the Holy Prophet Muhammad received the first revelation of the Holy Qur’an and was appointed as a messenger of God. (Marmaduke Pickthall. The Holy Qur’an. New Delhi, 1990, p. 5)
Srila Prabhupada gave the example of the tree: is given that if the branches, twigs and leaves are in touch with the original tree, then nourishment is there. The test is whether the line is in touch with the Supreme Lord. That is all. In this way, because the Holy Prophet Muhammad is in touch with God through the archangel Gabriel, he is a bona fide spiritual master.
The next point Srila Prabhupada made is that although Hazrat Muhammad appeared in the modem age called Kali Yuga (Iron Age), or age of quarrel and hypocrisy, his instruction is as it is. Because the persons to whom he had to speak could not understand the whole truth and they even found it difficult to understand parts of that truth, he had to speak according to the level of their intellectual capacities.
ReplyDeleteTherefore once, the Holy Prophet Muhammad said, “Speak to people according to the level of their intellectual capacities. For if you speak all things to all men, some cannot understand you, and so fall into errors.” (Abdullah al-Mamun al-Suhrawardy. The Sayings of Muhammad, London, 1905, p. 31)
In this connection, the prominent Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes :
“While the basic principles of Allah’s Law remain the same; its form, expression and application have varied from time to time, e. g., from Moses to Jesus, and from Jesus to Muhammad.” (The Holy Qur-an. The Presidency of Islamic Researchers, Al-Madinah Al-Munawarah, 1410 H., p. 1939)
Nava-yauvana : In Islam they say that God cannot come to this earth.
Atreya Rishi : God would not come to this earth.
Srila Prabhupada : God cannot speak? God cannot come. A very big man, he can come, but He (God) cannot speak?
Atreya Rishi : They agree. He can speak and He can send representatives.
Srila Prabhupada : Because He has spoken to Muhammad, and Muhammad has come, he is speaking the same thing. There is no need of God’s coming. If
Muhammad is speaking on behalf of God, then that is all right. There is no need of God’s coming. This is parampara.
(Morning walk. Tehran, 12/08/76)
Again Srila Prabhupada mentions in his morning walk in Tehran that because God has spoken to Hazrat Muhammad, and the Holy Prophet Muhammad is simply repeating the same message on behalf of God, this is parampara, disciplic succession, or chain of teachers.
5. The Qur’an
Srila Prabhupada : The revealed scripture of the Muslims is the Qur’an. (Chaitanya-charitamrita. Madhya-lila, 18.190)
Srila Prabhupada : Just like in your country there is the Bible or any other scripture. We have got the Vedas. The Muslims, they have got the Qur’an. These scriptures can help also because they are also authority. But you will find that one scripture is differing from other scriptures in some details. Of course, on average there is no difference. (Lecture, 25/04/69)
Srila Prabhupada : The Muslims accept the Qur’an. What is the purpose for all these books of knowledge? They are to train us to understand our position as pure soul. Their purpose is to restrict bodily activities by certain rules and regulations, and these rules and regulations are known as codes of morality. (Beyond Birth and Death. Ch. 1)
Srila Prabhupada : According to the climate, according to the population, according to the country, there are different books of knowledge. Just like in India the books of knowledge are accepted as the Vedas, Vedic knowledge. In your European, American countries the accepted books of knowledge are the Old Testament and the New Testament. Similarly, the book of knowledge amongst the Muslims, (which) they have accepted is the Qur’an. Actually, they are all books of knowledge; undoubtedly. There is no doubt about it. But what are these books of knowledge? Religious scriptures! Religious scriptures are meant for training you to (understand) the conception of life that you are a pure soul, nothing more. They restrict your bodily activities under certain conditions. That is called morality. (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, 25/03/66)
Srila Prabhupada : This message (of God) may also be found in the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic literatures, in the Bible and the Qur’an — in any bona fide scripture — or it may be heard from a realised soul. (On the Way to Krishna, Ch. 3)
Srila Prabhupada : According to the Vedic scriptures, if one can support his stand by quoting from the Vedas, his argument is perfect. Similarly, when the Muslims support their stand with quotations from the Qur’an, their arguments are also authorised. (Chaitanya-charitamrita. Adi-lila, 7.155p)
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada : If you purchase the Bhagavad-gita, if you purchase the Bible, if you purchase the Qur’an, or… There are so many literatures. They are also authorised. (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, 16/12/66)
Srila Prabhupada : So in the Qur’an there is God-consciousness, in the Bible there is God-consciousness, in the Vedas there is God-consciousness. (Lecture on Chaitanya-charitamrita, 24/02/71)
Srila Prabhupada : Vedas means the books of transcendental knowledge. Not only the Bhagavad-gita, even the Bible or the Qur’an, they are also (books of transcendental knowledge). (Lecture, 29/07/68)
Srila Prabhupada : If you find that by following some religious principles you are developing your love of God, then it is perfect. It doesn’t matter whether it is the Bible or the Qur’an or the Bhagavad-gita; it doesn’t matter. (Lecture, 18/10/68)
In the above statements, Srila Prabhupada, first of all, stresses that the holy Qur’an is a revealed scripture or a book of transcendental knowledge. Then Srila Prabhupada explains that according to the climate, population, and country there are different books of knowledge, like the Vedas, the Torah, the Bible, and the Qur’an. Although one scripture is differing from other scriptures in some details, on the whole the essence is the same. Throughout the world all the bona fide scriptures explain the same Absolute Truth in different languages and from different angles of view. The purpose of all these scriptures or books of knowledge is to give us understanding about our position as a pure soul. Their purpose is to restrict the bodily activities by certain rules and regulations, and these rules and regulations are known as codes of morality. In all these books, the message of God may be found. All of them are teaching God-consciousness, awareness of God.
Finally, Srila Prabhupada said that if one finds that by following that particular religious process he is developing love of God, then it is perfect. It doesn’t matter where this religious process is described, whether in the Bible or in the Qur’an or in the Bhagavad-gita. This means that the main goal of human life is to develop love of God, not just blindly following some religious principles or scripture and fanatically advertising them without being conscious (aware) of the goal. The goal is love of God, not just following religious principles or scriptures and forgetting the goal. Everyone must understand this essential knowledge.
Srila Prabhupada: Buddha is shaktyavesha-avatara. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also as shaktyavesha-avatara. Muhammad is also shaktyavesha-avatara. Shaktyavesha-avatara means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf (of God). That is called shaktyavesha-avatara. (Room conversation. Geneva. 4/06/74)
Srila Prabhupada: Christ is also an empowered incarnation, shaktyavesha avatara. Muhammad is also shaktyavesha avatara. Anyone who is preaching about God is an empowered incarnation. (Morning walk. London, 11/03/75)
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Because he said it, it must be correct. Muhammad is also shaktyavesha-avatara. Shaktyavesha-avatara means a living entity who is especially empowered to preach the glories of the Lord. Buddha is also shaktyavesha-avatara. They are not ordinary human beings. They are especially empowered personalities." (Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam, 17/12/70)
Srila Prabhupada: We accept, according to this avesha, avesha-avatara incarnation, authorised incarnation, we accept, my Guru Maharaja accepted Lord Jesus Christ and Hazrat Muhammad; this avesha incarnation (has) almost the same power. (Lecture on Chaitanya-charitamrita, 13/12/66)
ReplyDeleteHere Srila Prabhupada explains that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is a living entity especially empowered to breach the glories of the Lord. He is not an ordinary human being. He is an especially empowered personality.
[ Courtesy: Sai Arjun ]
Vishnu's appearance from Aditi is similar to His appearance as Narasimha from a pillar in Hiranyakasipu's palace or as Varaha from the nostril of Brahma. Vishnu's forms are eternal, but you're wrongly taking such entry points as origins.
ReplyDeleteThe advaita conception of samadhi is detestable to devotees of the Lord. It's the same temporary liberation given to demons whom Vishnu kills, because of the same mentality. Desiring oneself as supreme is the epitome of envying the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Your statement that desire arose in Brahman suggests that Brahman is incomplete and subject to modification by time. The obvious fact that we disagree proves the reality of duality. Without duality, there can be no experience of any kind, what to speak of disagreements.
no it is not, but you are quite funny
ReplyDeleteAdvaita can be detestable to you, but that does not mean it is not valid, just because it is insulting you. LOL Likewise, the comment from the 'Desire' is a message that led to creation, this was the creation of time and form, do you actually read the Vedas?
ReplyDeleteBut I will play along, as you now present that you are an authority on the Vedas, kindly support your statements with where this is stated in the Vedas, you can use the Vedas or Brahmana, if needed.
ReplyDeleteNow kindly don't post another message of your limited time, so you can go ask someone else or research to get some simplistic answer that somehow illuminates. Kindly support your position with the actual Vedas.
ReplyDeleteLet's see what you know Big Guy!
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you post your support from the Vedas, because, you, me and whoever is giving you the answer knows its not there.
ReplyDeleteBut let's look at your fanatism from your own teacher.
ReplyDeleteIslam is also Vaishnavism.
Srila Prabhupada: Islam is also Vaishnavism.
Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaishnavism.
Srila Prabhupada: No, no. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu talked with the Pathanas (Muslims). He proved that “Your religion is Vaishnavism.” (Morning walk. Bombay, 17/02/74)
Srila Prabhupada: Then Islam is Vaishnava dharma (religion) in a crude form like Christianity.
(Room conversation. Tehran, 14/03/75)
In these two Statements, Srila Prabhupada explains that the Is amic religion is also teaching how to become a servant of only one God and surrender to Him with love and devotion. One can cultivate the same knowledge in the Vaishnava religion but with more detailed information. In Vaishnavism, one can learn how to de velop his eternal loving relationships with the Supreme Lord. Although Dr. Patel could not accept that Islam is also Vaishnavism, Srila Prabhupada explained that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, in his conversation with the Pathana Muslims, proved by quoting from the Holy Qur’an that Islam is also Vaishnavism. At the end of his conversation all the Pathana Mus lims, including the great Muslim Scholar and prince Vijuli Khan, accepted the fact that Vaishavism is a true religion teaching complete surrender to the will and desire of God, which is the meaning of Islam. Later on in 197S, in Tehran, Srila Prabhupada explained that Islam is a simplified form of the Vaishnava religion. Why? Because the Holy Prophet Muhammad taught his people according to time, place, circumstances and their intellectual level. He himself clearly said, “I received two kinds of knowledge: one of these I taught — but if I had taught them the other, it would have broken their necks.” (Nadarbeg K. Mizra, Reincarnation and Islam, Madras, 1927, p. 4)
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A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on ISLAM
Akif Manaf J., Ph.D.
DKBT - THE DABIR KHAS BOOK TRUST
“Certainly God will send to my sect at the end of every hundred years,
a person who will renew my religion.” (Prophet Muhammad)
“Chaitanya Mahaprabhu proved devotional Service from the Qur’an.
So it requires a devotee who can explain God from any godly literature.”
(Srila Prabhupada)
Dedicated to an Eternal Spiritual Master
who can save the entire universe
Contents
1. Islam is also Vaishnavism
2. Islam means Submission
3. God sends His messengers
4. Parampara — Disciplic succession
5. The Qur’an
6. The Qur’an is also shastra
7. The knowledge must be scientific
8. The Muslim religion is based on a conception of God
9. The Muslim religion is also bhakti-yoga
10. Guru — Spiritual master
11. Hazrat Muhammad is shaktyavesha-avatara
12. Hazrat Muhammad is an acharya
13. Hazrat Muhammad is an authority
14. Hazrat Muhammad is a devotee of God
15. Hazrat Muhammad is a servant of God
16. Hazrat Muhammad is the perfect holy man
17. Hazrat Muhammad preached God-consciousness
18. Hazrat Muhammad teaches according to the class of men
19. Hazrat Muhammad could hear God
20. The Muslims are also Vaishnavas
21. A planet where pious Muslims go
22. Animal slaughter
23. God is a person
24. God is not formless
25. God can be seen
26. God is not material
27. Allah is a name of God
28. The ultimate goal is to love God
Introduction
Religion is meant for peace, not war.
Again and again God has sent His messengers to this material world to re-establish religious principles. Different messengers have revealed different scriptures in different languages accord-ing to time, place, circumstances and the intellectual capacity of the people. In this way the Vedas, Avesta, Torah, Bible and Qur’an were made available for the benefit of mankind, to bring them closer to God. Despite the different languages and different ages in which these scriptures were presented, the knowl-edge and guidance is essentially the same. That is:
ReplyDelete1. God is one
2. Everyone is a servant of God
3. Everyone has an eternal relationship with God
4. The primary duty of everyone is Service to God
5. The goal of human life is to develop love of God.
As far as the process of each scripture is concerned, some details and rituals differ, but in essence it is all the same. Every messenger of God came to this mortal world to remind us that we should always remember God, serve God and love God. Therefore, religious principles are meant for peace and prosperity, not war. Vaishnavism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Chris-tianity and Islam are all meant for uniting people, not dividing them.
“In the vase there is a variety of flowers, and that variety helps us better appreciate the idea of flowers. That is called unity in diversity,” said Srila Prabhupada. But because of misunderstanding, misinterpretation and deviation from the revealed scriptures, hundreds and hundreds of sects have already appeared, even within the same religious communities, what to speak of other communities. People quarrel, fight and kill each other under the name of reli-gion. So much degradation. There is no peace and prosperity on this earth. How can we gain the peace and prosperity that everyone is searching for? In this dark age of quarrel and hypocrisy, God has sent us His most merciful servant, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, to re-establish true religious principles and unite all the religions under the non-sectarian, nonmaterial, transcendental flag of love of God.
As a humble saint, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada never criticised any religion or any bona fide representative of any religion. Some people say Srila Prabhupada was a genius, some say a great religious teacher, some say a friend like no other, but Srila Prabhupada said: “I am simply a servant of a servant of a servant of God.” By re-establishing the Absolute Truth as it was, as it is, and as it always should be without adding or subtracting anything from the way it was presented to him, he began an international movement that has already united people of all religions, nations, ages, etc.. Thanks to his compassion and struggle, souls from all walks of life: scientists, businessmen, philosophers, laborers, housewives and students are all marching under the united nations transcendental flag of love of God.
In this work we present Statements by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on Islam taken from his books, lectures and conversations. We sincerely hope it will help people develop a proper understanding of interreligious connections, ” unity in diversity .”
1. Islam is also Vaishnavism
Srila Prabhupada : Islam is also Vaishnavism.
Dr. Patel : Mohammedanism is not Vaishnavism.
Srila Prabhupada : No, no. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu talked with the Pathanas (Muslims). He proved that “Your religion is Vaishnavism.” (Morning walk. Bombay, 17/02/74)
Srila Prabhupada: Then Islam is Vaishnava dharma (religion) in a crude form like Christianity.
(Room conversation. Tehran, 14/03/75)
In these two Statements, Srila Prabhupada explains that the Is amic religion is also teaching how to become a servant of only one God and surrender to Him with love and devotion. One can cultivate the same knowledge in the Vaishnava religion but with more detailed information. In Vaishnavism, one can learn how to de velop his eternal loving relationships with the Supreme Lord. Although Dr. Patel could not accept that Islam is also Vaishnavism, Srila Prabhupada explained that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, in his conversation with the Pathana Muslims, proved by quoting from the Holy Qur’an that Islam is also Vaishnavism. At the end of his conversation all the Pathana Mus lims, including the great Muslim Scholar and prince Vijuli Khan, accepted the fact that Vaishavism is a true religion teaching complete surrender to the will and desire of God, which is the meaning of Islam. Later on in 197S, in Tehran, Srila Prabhupada explained that Islam is a simplified form of the Vaishnava religion. Why? Because the Holy Prophet Muhammad taught his people according to time, place, circumstances and their intellectual level. He himself clearly said, “I received two kinds of knowledge: one of these I taught — but if I had taught them the other, it would have broken their necks.” (Nadarbeg K. Mizra, Reincarnation and Islam, Madras, 1927, p. 4)
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Muslim tradition, a part of the “Heavenly Book” which is kept under the Throne of Allah was revealed to the Holy Prophet Muhammad in the Arabic language. More than this, the Holy Prophet Muhammad once had miraj, or the experience of “ascending” to heaven.
And after penetrating the 7th layer of heaven, he visited the Throne of Allah and received divine knowledge from Him. This divine knowledge given by Allah to the Holy Prophet Muhammad was in three parts:
1) The knowledge that Allah ordered the Holy Prophet Muhammad to conceal from others and keep for himself
2) The knowledge that Allah allowed him to choose whether or not to conceal or reveal to others
3) The knowledge that Allah ordered the Apostle to communicate to all members of his ummah (community). (Geo Widengren. Muhammad, the Apostle of
God, and His Ascension. Uppsala, 1955, p. 108)
In this way, the Holy Prophet Muhammad got part of the unlimited spiritual knowledge and at the same time was ordered by Allah to conceal some parts of this knowledge.
Thus from statements of the Holy Prophet and from his life, we can understand that he withheld some confidential knowledge about the Supreme Lord. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada said that Islam is simplified Vaishnavism. By these words Srila Prabhupada had no intention to discredit the Islamic religion. He actually had all respect for Islam as we will see later on. That is why he said that Islam is also Vaishnavism. But what Srila Prabhupada meant is that not all aspects of Vaishnava philosophy were revealed by the Holy Prophet Muhammad, as he himself states.
2. Islam means submission
Yoga student : In fact Muslims object to their religion being called Mohammedanism because it implies that they worship Muhammad, whereas in fact they feel that they go straight to God, to Allah, and that Muhammad simply was a messenger.
Srila Prabhupada : That’s good.
Yoga student : And they call their religion Islam, which means submission.
Srila Prabhupada : That’s very good.
Yoga student : The Muslim is he who submits.
(Room conversation. Tehran, 14/03/75)
Srila Prabhupada : Religion means to surrender to God. It doesn’t matter what religion you profess. It doesn’t matter. But you must learn how to obey the Supreme Lord. That is religion. Religion does not mean that you stamp some stereotype religion, “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Buddhist,” and then fight. That is not religion. That is fanaticism. Religion means how one has become devoted to God. That is religion.
You claim to be religious, or you claim to be Hindu or Christian or Buddhist. That’s all right But do you know what is God? Oh, everyone is silent. He does not know what is God. And what is his religion? If you do not know what is God, a vague idea, that is not religion. You must know what is God. Just like to become an American citizen, it requires you to know something of the history of America. So ask an American citizen, “What are you?”
ReplyDelete“Now, I’m American.”
“Who is your president?’
“I do not know.”
What is this nonsense American? Would you like to hear from him, “I do not know who is my president.” Similarly, a human being professing some certain type of religion, but if you ask him, “What is God?”
Religion must be in relationship with God; any religion. But ask him, “What is God?” No answer. But religion means yato bhaktir adhoksaje — by practising it, one becomes a devotee of the Lord. That is religion, First-class religion. (Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam. 9/01/74)
Srila Prabhupada: Religion means obedience to God. Religion does not mean anything else. You can manufacture so many formulas and theses. But the real meaning is obedience to God. That is religion. Simple definition. If a man is obedient to God, it doesn’t matter to which religion he belongs. He may be Christian, he may be Hindu, he may be Mussalman. It doesn’t matter. Religion means obedience to God.(Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam. 12/12/73)
Here Srila Prabhupada again and again emphasised that religion means surrender to or obedience to God. Islam also means full surrender to the will of God. Many times the Holy Prophet Muhammad explained that everyone is a banda, or slave of Allah and must obey His order. We should understand our original, constitutional position as servants of God and by following His instructions we will develop our eternal loving relationship with the Supreme Lord.
People should not just put arubber stamp on themselves, “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim” and then fight. This is not a religious activity but fanaticism born from ignorance. Another meaning of Islam is “peace.” Islam must bring peace, not war. If someone under the name of Islam advocates war, this means he has misunderstood or misinterpreted Islam. We should not be bewildered by such unscrupulous interpreters, rather we should follow true, eternal Islam, which will bring universal peace to the world. In the beginning of his preaching, the Holy Prophet Muhammad and his followers were severely persecuted by Meccan leaders. The Holy Prophet tolerated and taught his followers to be tolerant and forgiving towards their persecutors. Later on when Meccan leaders decided to kill the Holy Prophet Muhammad, he escaped to Medina. There the number of Muslims rapidly increased, and the Meccans decided to march upon Medina and kill all the Muslims. This time the Holy Prophet got a revelation from God that sanctioned fighting and killing for the purpose of protecting religious principles. Thus it is stated in the sura “Al-Baqarah” or “The Cow” of the Holy Qur’an (2.190-193):
“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution is worse than slaughter, but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.
But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more persecution and the religion becomes Allah’s.”
Prominent Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali comments :
“War is permissible in self-defence, and under well-defined limits. When undertaken, it must be pushed with vigour, but not relentlessly, but only to restore peace and freedom for the worship of Allah. In any case, strict limits must not be transgressed: women, children, old and infirm men should not be molested, nor trees and crops cut down, nor peace withheld when the enemy comes to terms.” (Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur-an, Al-Madinah, 1411H, p. 79)
ReplyDeleteThis is the actual meaning of Jihad, or Holy War. If an enemy is attacking one with deadly weapons, with the intention to destroy or impede one’s religious activities, one can fight and kill for the protection of religious principles. However, nowadays, many leaders are advocating war under the name of jihad. They are using religious terms to promote political ambitions. They dress themselves as religionists, but actually they are atheists. People should be very careful not to be victimised by such dishonest and misguided leaders.
So, in Medina, the Muslims were attacked many times by Meccans and despite having smaller numbers, they always emerged victorious. During these wars, the Holy Prophet Muhammad gave special orders that Muslims should not kill monks, children, women, old and helpless people. Once after battle, the Holy Prophet saw dead women on the battlefield. He became very upset and chastised his followers.
Finally, despite severe persecutions and wars, the Holy Prophet Muhammad conquered Mecca and entered the city with a huge army without shedding any blood or taking revenge upon his persecutors; instead he forgave them. This is how the Holy Prophet acted.
In conclusion, the Holy Prophet Muhammad said: “The most excellent Jihad is the uttering of truth in the presence of an unjust ruler.” (Mishkat, 17)
Muslims should learn from his example and follow his instructions without deviation. Thus by following the orders of God revealed in the scriptures and surrendering unto Him, everyone will become obedient servants of God and develop their loving relationship with Him.
Once the Holy Prophet Muhammad shed light on another aspect of Jihad. He said:
” The most excellent Jihad (Holy War) is that for conquest of self .”
(Abdullah Al-Mamun Al-Suhrawardy, The sayings of Muhammad, London, 1905, p. 27)
Here is a good description of Jihad. The Holy Prophet Muhammad himself explained that Jihad means fighting and conquering the impurities of consciousness. It is not that one should fight with the enemy on the outside. No. Actually, one should fight with the enemies that is inside. Who are these internal enemies? They are lust, greed and anger. These are three gates leading to hell. One should fight and conquer these enemies. Jihad may require fighting in Allah’s cause, as a form of self-sacrifice. But its essence consists in:
1) true and sincere faith, which so fixes its attention on Allah, that all selfish or worldly motives seem insignificant and fade away, and
2) enthusiastic and incessant activities, involving the sacrifice of one’s life, or wealth, in the service of Allah. Mere brutal fighting is opposed to the whole spirit of Jihad, while the sincere scholar’s pen or the preacher’s voice or the wealthy man’s contributions may be the most valuable forms of Jihad. This is the inner, esoteric meaning of the term Jihad, Holy War.
3. God sends His messengers
Srila Prabhupada: When our constitutional position or dharma has deteriorated due to the contaminations of matter, the Lord Himself comes as an incarnation or sends some of His confidential servitors. Lord Jesus Christ called himself the “son of God,” and so he is a representative of the Supreme. Similarly, Muhammad identified himself as a servant of the Supreme Lord.
Thus whenever there is a discrepancy in our constitutional position, the Supreme Lord either comes Himself or sends His representative to inform us of the real position of the living entity. (On the Way to Krishna, Ch. 2)
ReplyDeleteHere Srila Prabhupada explains the universal law of the Supreme Lord. Whenever religious principles deteriorated to the influence of the illusory material energy, God sent some of His confidential servants like Jesus Christ or Hazrat Muhammad to inform people of their real position as eternal servitors of God. In this way, Moses and Jesus were sent to Jews and Hazrat Muhammad to Arabs to re-establish the eternal religious principles that everyone is a servant of God and should serve Him with love and devotion. Each messenger of God accepts the authority of the previous messengers and scriptures.
The Holy Qur’an (2.285) expresses this principle in the following way:
“The Messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believes in Allah, His angels, His books and His messengers. ‘We make no distinction (they say) between any of His messengers.’”
The prominent Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali comments :
“It is not for us to make any distinction between one and another of Allah’s Messengers: we must honour them all equally, though we know that Allah in His wisdom sent them with different kinds of missions and gave them different degrees of rank.” (Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur-an, Al-Madinah, 1411 H, p. 132)
Thus the Holy Qur’an accepts all previous scriptures and messengers. It is explained here that the messengers of God accept the Supreme Lord, His angels (who are administrating material affairs), scriptures (sent by God through His different representatives) and all of God’s other messengers. They never discriminate between any of His messengers, which means that they never say, ‘This messenger is better than another,” or “We accept this messenger but do not care about that one.” Thus we should understand that God sends His messengers or representatives to different nations to preach the Absolute Truth according to time, place and circumstances.
The Holy Qur’an (12.2) explains this point in the following verse of sura “Yusuf,” or “Joseph”:
“We (Allah) have revealed it, a Lecture (Qur’an) in Arabic, that you (Muhammad) may understand.”
Allah explained here that He revealed the Qur’an in Arabic so that the Holy Prophet Muhammad may understand it and convey it to other Arabs. Allah, time after time, reveals His eternal message to different prophets in the appropriate language. Although the linguistic expressions and terms are different, the essential knowledge is the same:
1) God is one
2) Everyone is the servant of God
3) We must serve and love God
4) And to do so, we must chant His holy name.
This is the universal message of God contained in all scriptures.
Furthermore it is stated in the sura “Al-Baqarah,” or “The Cow” of the Holy Qur’an (2.253):
“Those Messengers we endowed with gifts, some above others: to some of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour).”
Thus, different gifts and different modes of procedure were given to Allah’s messengers through the different ages, and perhaps their degrees are also different. According to the supreme plan of the Lord, different personalities appear in different parts of the world to deliver the eternal message of God to the nations.
In the Tafsire Kassaf(Jild 3, Chapter 60) 4th Khalifoi Islam, son-in-law of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Hazrat Ali said:
“Allah-Taala sent one black coloured nabi (one who delivers the message of God) whose name is not mentioned in the Qur’an.” (Tafsire Madarek, Juj 2, Egypt, p. 65)
In the sura “Al-Baqarah,” or ‘The Cow” of the Holy Qur’an (2.136), we find the following verse:
“Say you: ‘We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, to the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) the Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we submit to Allah.’”
ReplyDeleteHere we have the creed of Islam — to believe in:
1) the one universal God
2) the message that has come to us through the Holy Prophet Muhammad and the signs (ayats) interpreted by him
3) the messages delivered by other prophets in the past. These are mentioned in three groups:
(1) Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes; of these Abraham apparently had a scripture
(2) Moses and Jesus, who each left a scripture
(3) other scriptures, prophets, or messengers of God, not specifically mentioned in the Holy Qur’an. Their message in essence was one, and that is the basis of Islam.
In the Tarikhe Hatndan, Chapter Babul Kaf, the Holy Prophet Muhammad mentioned one divine personality who descended in India. He described his colour and gave his name. These are the words of the Holy Prophet Muhammad:
“In India one black coloured nabi advented and his name was Kahan.”
In the opinion of the prominent Muslim scholar Alhaz Ahmad Tofic, the person mentioned by the Holy Prophet Muhammad in the Tarikhe Hatndan is Krishna, who appeared in India 5,000 years ago, whose colour was blackish and who delivered to mankind the message of God, famously known as the Bhagavad-gita.
Another interesting piece of evidence was given by one of the close associates of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, namely Ab’uhurairah. According to Ab’uhurairah, the Holy Prophet of Islam said:
“Certainly God will send to my sect at the end of every hundred years, a person who will renew my religion.” (Mishcat-ul-Masabih, Calcutta, 1809, p. 62)
One example of such renewal is recorded in a very exciting conversation about the Holy Qur’an between Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Abdullah Pathana about 500 years ago. In this conversation the Hidden Treasure of Al-Qur’an was again revealed to mankind. (Anyone interested can read The Hidden Treasure of Al-Qur’an by Dr. Akif Manaf J.)
Another incident involving Chaitanya Mahaprabhu took place when the Muslim King of Bengal, Ala’ uddin Saiyad Hussain Shah (1498-1511), heard of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s influence in attracting innumerable people. He said: “Such a person, who is followed by so many people without giving them charity, must be a prophet. I can surely understand this fact.”
Then Hussain Shah ordered the magistrate: “Do not disturb this prophet out of jealousy. Let him do as he wills wherever he likes.”
Later, in private, the King inquired from his minister, Dabir Khas, about this personality, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Dabir Khas replied: “This prophet always desires your good fortune. By his grace, all your business is successful. By his blessings, you will attain victory everywhere. Why are you questioning me? Better that you question your own mind. Because you are the King of the people, you are the representative of the Supreme. Therefore you can understand this better than me.”
The King said: “I consider Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to be a divine personality. There is no doubt about it.” (Chaitanya-charitamrita, Madhya-Lila, Chapter 1, Texts 168-180)
4. Parampara — Disciplic succession
Srila Prabhupada: If Muhammad is the servant of God and Jesus Christ is the son of God, then where is the break of the disciplic succession. After all the disciplic succession is beginning from God, so how do you find that there is no disciplic succession? If the original tree has branches, twigs and leaves and they are in touch with the original tree, it is all right. The test is whether the line is in touch with the Supreme — that is all.
Although Muhammad and Jesus Christ appeared in the Kali Yuga (the present age of quarrel and hypocrisy) their instruction is as it is because the persons to whom they had to speak could not understand any more and they find it difficult to understand even that much. (Letter 19/07/70)
ReplyDeleteHere Srila Prabhupada explains the very important con-ception of parampara from the Vedic literatures. Parampara means disciplic succession, or chain of self-realised souls who convey spiritual knowledge without adulteration. The absolute knowledge descends through generations of spiritual masters and disciples. The topmost disciples become preceptors and pass on the teachings to their disciples. Parampara, or disciplic succession begins from God. The Holy Prophet Muhammad received knowledge of God through the archangel Gabriel; therefore he is in the line of disciplic succession.
According to tradition, it was the practice of the Holy Prophet Muhammad to retire from his family to a desert cave for meditation for one month every year. His place of retreat was Hira, a desert hill not far from Mecca, and his chosen month was Ramazan (December), the month of heat. It was there, one night towards the end of his stay, that the first revelation came to him when he was forty years old. This happened on the seventeenth day of Ramazan month (22nd of December, 610). That date is since named Al-Gadir, “Night of Power”.
Hazrat Muhammad was asleep when he heard a voice calling him. When he opened his eyes, he saw a bright dazzling light and fell unconscious. When he regained consciousness, he saw an angel in the likeness of a man, carrying a written document enveloped in precious silk. The angel said, “Read!” He replied, “I cannot read.” Indeed he was illiterate.
The angel placed the document on his chest. Hazrat Muhammad felt as if a mountain had fallen upon him and thought that he would die of suffocation. Then the angel lifted the document and repeated, “Read!” He replied, “I cannot read” but again the angel pressed him even stronger than before. A third time the angel commanded in a more terrible voice, “Read!”
“What have I to read?’
The angel said:
“Read: In the name of your Lord Who created,
Created man from a clot.
Read: Your Lord is Most Bountiful,
Who taught by the pen,
Taught man that which he knew not.”
( The Qur’an 96.1-5 )
Hazrat Muhammad submissively repeated the words, and they remained “as if inscribed in his heart.” He went out of the cave, onto the hillside, and heard the same awe-inspiring voice say, “O Muhammad! You are Allah’s messenger, and I am Gabriel.” Then he raised his eyes and saw the angel standing in the sky above the horizon and again the dreadful voice said, “O Muhammad! You are Allah’s messenger, and I am Gabriel.” Hazrat Muhammad stood still. Due to the brightness of the light, he turned his face away, but in whichever direction he would turn his face, the angel always stood there confronting him. He remained standing there for a long time until the angel vanished. Thus the Holy Prophet Muhammad received the first revelation of the Holy Qur’an and was appointed as a messenger of God. (Marmaduke Pickthall. The Holy Qur’an. New Delhi, 1990, p. 5)
Srila Prabhupada gave the example of the tree: is given that if the branches, twigs and leaves are in touch with the original tree, then nourishment is there. The test is whether the line is in touch with the Supreme Lord. That is all. In this way, because the Holy Prophet Muhammad is in touch with God through the archangel Gabriel, he is a bona fide spiritual master.
The next point Srila Prabhupada made is that although Hazrat Muhammad appeared in the modem age called Kali Yuga (Iron Age), or age of quarrel and hypocrisy, his instruction is as it is. Because the persons to whom he had to speak could not understand the whole truth and they even found it difficult to understand parts of that truth, he had to speak according to the level of their intellectual capacities.
ReplyDeleteTherefore once, the Holy Prophet Muhammad said, “Speak to people according to the level of their intellectual capacities. For if you speak all things to all men, some cannot understand you, and so fall into errors.” (Abdullah al-Mamun al-Suhrawardy. The Sayings of Muhammad, London, 1905, p. 31)
In this connection, the prominent Muslim scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes :
“While the basic principles of Allah’s Law remain the same; its form, expression and application have varied from time to time, e. g., from Moses to Jesus, and from Jesus to Muhammad.” (The Holy Qur-an. The Presidency of Islamic Researchers, Al-Madinah Al-Munawarah, 1410 H., p. 1939)
Nava-yauvana : In Islam they say that God cannot come to this earth.
Atreya Rishi : God would not come to this earth.
Srila Prabhupada : God cannot speak? God cannot come. A very big man, he can come, but He (God) cannot speak?
Atreya Rishi : They agree. He can speak and He can send representatives.
Srila Prabhupada : Because He has spoken to Muhammad, and Muhammad has come, he is speaking the same thing. There is no need of God’s coming. If
Muhammad is speaking on behalf of God, then that is all right. There is no need of God’s coming. This is parampara.
(Morning walk. Tehran, 12/08/76)
Again Srila Prabhupada mentions in his morning walk in Tehran that because God has spoken to Hazrat Muhammad, and the Holy Prophet Muhammad is simply repeating the same message on behalf of God, this is parampara, disciplic succession, or chain of teachers.
5. The Qur’an
Srila Prabhupada : The revealed scripture of the Muslims is the Qur’an. (Chaitanya-charitamrita. Madhya-lila, 18.190)
Srila Prabhupada : Just like in your country there is the Bible or any other scripture. We have got the Vedas. The Muslims, they have got the Qur’an. These scriptures can help also because they are also authority. But you will find that one scripture is differing from other scriptures in some details. Of course, on average there is no difference. (Lecture, 25/04/69)
Srila Prabhupada : The Muslims accept the Qur’an. What is the purpose for all these books of knowledge? They are to train us to understand our position as pure soul. Their purpose is to restrict bodily activities by certain rules and regulations, and these rules and regulations are known as codes of morality. (Beyond Birth and Death. Ch. 1)
Srila Prabhupada : According to the climate, according to the population, according to the country, there are different books of knowledge. Just like in India the books of knowledge are accepted as the Vedas, Vedic knowledge. In your European, American countries the accepted books of knowledge are the Old Testament and the New Testament. Similarly, the book of knowledge amongst the Muslims, (which) they have accepted is the Qur’an. Actually, they are all books of knowledge; undoubtedly. There is no doubt about it. But what are these books of knowledge? Religious scriptures! Religious scriptures are meant for training you to (understand) the conception of life that you are a pure soul, nothing more. They restrict your bodily activities under certain conditions. That is called morality. (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, 25/03/66)
Srila Prabhupada : This message (of God) may also be found in the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic literatures, in the Bible and the Qur’an — in any bona fide scripture — or it may be heard from a realised soul. (On the Way to Krishna, Ch. 3)
Srila Prabhupada : According to the Vedic scriptures, if one can support his stand by quoting from the Vedas, his argument is perfect. Similarly, when the Muslims support their stand with quotations from the Qur’an, their arguments are also authorised. (Chaitanya-charitamrita. Adi-lila, 7.155p)
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada : If you purchase the Bhagavad-gita, if you purchase the Bible, if you purchase the Qur’an, or… There are so many literatures. They are also authorised. (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, 16/12/66)
Srila Prabhupada : So in the Qur’an there is God-consciousness, in the Bible there is God-consciousness, in the Vedas there is God-consciousness. (Lecture on Chaitanya-charitamrita, 24/02/71)
Srila Prabhupada : Vedas means the books of transcendental knowledge. Not only the Bhagavad-gita, even the Bible or the Qur’an, they are also (books of transcendental knowledge). (Lecture, 29/07/68)
Srila Prabhupada : If you find that by following some religious principles you are developing your love of God, then it is perfect. It doesn’t matter whether it is the Bible or the Qur’an or the Bhagavad-gita; it doesn’t matter. (Lecture, 18/10/68)
In the above statements, Srila Prabhupada, first of all, stresses that the holy Qur’an is a revealed scripture or a book of transcendental knowledge. Then Srila Prabhupada explains that according to the climate, population, and country there are different books of knowledge, like the Vedas, the Torah, the Bible, and the Qur’an. Although one scripture is differing from other scriptures in some details, on the whole the essence is the same. Throughout the world all the bona fide scriptures explain the same Absolute Truth in different languages and from different angles of view. The purpose of all these scriptures or books of knowledge is to give us understanding about our position as a pure soul. Their purpose is to restrict the bodily activities by certain rules and regulations, and these rules and regulations are known as codes of morality. In all these books, the message of God may be found. All of them are teaching God-consciousness, awareness of God.
Finally, Srila Prabhupada said that if one finds that by following that particular religious process he is developing love of God, then it is perfect. It doesn’t matter where this religious process is described, whether in the Bible or in the Qur’an or in the Bhagavad-gita. This means that the main goal of human life is to develop love of God, not just blindly following some religious principles or scripture and fanatically advertising them without being conscious (aware) of the goal. The goal is love of God, not just following religious principles or scriptures and forgetting the goal. Everyone must understand this essential knowledge.
Srila Prabhupada: Buddha is shaktyavesha-avatara. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also as shaktyavesha-avatara. Muhammad is also shaktyavesha-avatara. Shaktyavesha-avatara means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf (of God). That is called shaktyavesha-avatara. (Room conversation. Geneva. 4/06/74)
Srila Prabhupada: Christ is also an empowered incarnation, shaktyavesha avatara. Muhammad is also shaktyavesha avatara. Anyone who is preaching about God is an empowered incarnation. (Morning walk. London, 11/03/75)
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Because he said it, it must be correct. Muhammad is also shaktyavesha-avatara. Shaktyavesha-avatara means a living entity who is especially empowered to preach the glories of the Lord. Buddha is also shaktyavesha-avatara. They are not ordinary human beings. They are especially empowered personalities." (Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam, 17/12/70)
Srila Prabhupada: We accept, according to this avesha, avesha-avatara incarnation, authorised incarnation, we accept, my Guru Maharaja accepted Lord Jesus Christ and Hazrat Muhammad; this avesha incarnation (has) almost the same power. (Lecture on Chaitanya-charitamrita, 13/12/66)
ReplyDeleteHere Srila Prabhupada explains that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is a living entity especially empowered to breach the glories of the Lord. He is not an ordinary human being. He is an especially empowered personality.
[ Courtesy: Sai Arjun ]
And everyone in India knows that Islam is NO friend of India or Hinduism generally.
ReplyDeleteOne cannot twist the Vedas to mean whatever one wishes, there are specific meanings to these mantras and these have been preserved by numerous traditions for 10s of thousands of years.
ReplyDeleteThe story of Aditi and Vishnu is a story of duality, obviously Vishnu is one of many that represents duality in the Vedas in this context.
ReplyDeleteVishnu was born of aditi, which is feminine placing the Goddess even higher than Vishnu (masculine). Aditi is the mother of the Gods 1.113.19
ReplyDeleteDo you consider desire the same as Brahman or different from Brahman?
ReplyDeleteIf they are the same, why have different words? If different, then what caused there to be desire? What caused the cause? Oh look, an infinite regression.
I read smrti, as given in the Gaudiya Vaisnava disciplic succession. As a non-brahmana, I'm not authorized to study sruti. Doing so would give a misunderstanding. I understand the Vedas through smrti, which is their purpose.
Hiranyakasipu conquered the whole universe and had a palace built, in which there was a pillar, so obviously Hiranyakasipu was superior to the pillar. Apparently by your thinking, Narasimha came from that pillar, making Narasimha inferior to the pillar. But then Narasimha killed Hiranyakasipu, establishing Himself as superior. So who is superior, Narasimha, Hiranyakasipu, or the pillar?
ReplyDeleteWhat you seem to not understand is that Krishna or Vishnu can do whatever He likes. He can appear wherever He wants, and even act in subordinate roles, without diminishing His supremacy at all.
Kindly show me this in the Vedas.
ReplyDeleteYou should know that desire is a quality and this indicates the gunas emanating out of nirguna
ReplyDeleteAgain, I do expect you to support your position from the Vedas, as you made the claim that it was Vedic. Kindly demonstrate your proof, as you stated, 'you give scripture evidence' to support your position, kindly give the Vedic support, or will your false-ego not allow you to admit that you spoke about something of which you have no knowledge. I have given Vedic and Uddhava Gita quotes for my position, not my interpretation but commonly accepted translations. Kindly support your position with the Vedas.
ReplyDeleteAnd by Vedic, I mean the 4 Vedas, Brahmanas if you need them, Arayakas or Upanishads (accepted Upanishads) by the Vedic traditions.
ReplyDeleteI'll respond here the same as on the other thread. Your exclusion of the Puranas and Itihasas means disregarding the transcendental explanations of the Vedas, allowing for whatever nonsense interpretation, like your idea of God as inferior to wherever He appeared.
ReplyDeleteJiva Gosvami, who is famous as a direct student of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, wrote (translated) in Sri Tattva Sandarbha, section 12:
"But at present it is difficult to study the Vedas in their entirety or to understand them. In addition, the great thinkers who have commented on the Vedas interpret them in contradictory ways. We should therefore study the Itihasas and Puranas, since they are Vedic in nature and are conclusive in determining the Vedas’ meaning. Moreover, with the help of the Itihasas and Puranas we can infer the meaning of the unavailable portions of the Vedas. Thus at present only the Itihasas and Puranas constitute the appropriate source of valid knowledge.
"This is why the Mahabharata [Adi-parva 1.267] and Manu-samhita state, “One should complement one’s understanding of the Vedas with the help of the Itihasas and Puranas.” And elsewhere it is stated, “The Puranas are called by that name because they complete (purana).” One should not try to “complete” or explain the meaning of the Vedas with something that is not Vedic in nature, just as one should not finish an incomplete gold bracelet with lead.
"But, one may object, if the Itihasas and Puranas are actually included as part of the text of the Vedas, we need to identify some other Puranas than those we are familiar with; otherwise the Itihasas and Puranas would not qualify as nondifferent from the Vedas.
"To this we reply that the Itihasas and Puranas are nondifferent from the Vedas inasmuch as both kinds of literary works have no human author and present the same detailed knowledge. Nonetheless, there is some difference between them with regard to intonation and word order.
"The Madhyandina-shruti [Brihad-aranyaka Up. 2.4.10] implies the oneness of the Itihasas and Puranas with the Rig and other Vedas in terms of the apaurusheya nature all these works share: “My dear Maitreyi, the Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas, as well as the Itihasas and Puranas, all appear from the breathing of the Supreme Being.”"
So there you have a reference from sruti indicating that the Puranas are also transcendental. The Bhagavata Purana gives the correct understanding of the Vedas, but if you want to adhere to a different conception, then it's understandable why you would want them excluded.
I am sorry it is difficult for you guys to study or understand the Vedas, our sampradaya does not find it that difficult to study or understand. It is also disheartening to hear that one of your teachers in your tradition could not understand the levels of translation and understanding of the Vedas. No Purana gives the correct understanding of the Vedas, this is dogma and not dharma. As Puranas, they are not considered Vedic by any knowledgeable person. Though I was wondering when your research would find this quote from the Brihadaranyaka, of course your quote is misleading, as the quote you gave from the Brihadaranyaka is actually in the context that all knowledge and wisdom come from Brahman, where the last line states '...are all these breathed forth.' It does not imply that they are all Vedic. Rather they are all part of Brahman. One cannot simply say something is implied without substantiating how it is implied. And within the context it is clear that they are referring to all coming from Brahman, but if you are saying that all comes from Brahman I can gladly accept your quote.
ReplyDeleteI accept your position that you cannot defend your position from the Vedas, and that your lineage apparently could not even understand it. I appreciate you want to use the word 'Vedic' without any knowledge of the Vedas and that you wish your handful of books to be the only authority of the Vedas. But, of course, it simply is not true, and you obviously cannot present anything from the Vedas to support you position, except that no one in your sampradaya could understand it. But of course, in debate, the fact that no one in your sampradaya can understand it is not a legitimate arguement, nor is the view that since no one in the sampradaya can understand it this book explains it. I mean this sincerely, do you ever think about what you are reading and writing, if someone says that they can't understand it, but this book over here explains it, does that really make sense?
ReplyDeleteNote, I also appreciate your quote from the Mahabharata, I think we can all celebrate additional study, but where exactly is your additional study in the Vedas, as you appear to only be able to quote your sampradayas dogma line of a handful of texts, which are of course translated only toward your own agenda. That is why for Vedic, it is best to use generally agreed upon Vedic texts, which would certainly be the Vedas themselves within any tradition and Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanishads.
ReplyDeleteI personally also like from the Brihadaranyaka "This self was indeed Brahman in the beginning. It knew itself only as "I am Brahman." And it became all...the seer Vamadeva, having ralized this self as that, came to know 'I was Many and the sun'...I am Brahman..who becomes all this universe." 1.4.10 Of course this Brahman is nirguna Brahman that they are referring to. So I appreciate your bringing up the Brihadaranyaka, it is one of my favorite Upanishads.
ReplyDeleteAccording to one the purport given in that section of Tattva Sandarbha:
ReplyDelete"Formerly the Rig Veda was divided into 21 branches, the Yajur Veda into 100 branches, the Sama Veda into 1,000 branches, and the Atharva Veda into 9 branches.” Each of these branches has 4 subdivisions, called Samhita, Brahmana, Aranyaka, and Upanishad. So all together the Vedas consist of 1,130 Samhitas, 1,130 Brahmanas, 1,130 Aranyakas, and 1,130 Upanishads, a total of 4,520 titles. By the influence of time, however, many texts have been lost. At present only about 11 Samhitas, 18 Brahmanas, 7 Aranyakas, and 220 Upanishads are available. This constitutes less than 6% of the original Vedas."
It's amazing that you don't consider the unavailability of 94% of a literary body as a difficulty with studying it. If you want to reach a conclusion different from what is intended, that would make sense.
I do consider and am studied on a wide variety of texts. As I initially told you it is a two way street, one is not limited to 4-5 texts that you wish to quote from and nothing else. You appear to have research skills or are emailing a friend on what the Vedas is and is not, but yet, you seem to have no information on the Vedas itself. I already addressed that the Vedas in its present for was for this world age. The other information is currently not available to people on the Bhuloka. Again, this is rather common knowledge. Likewise, your quote from the Swami was not regarding the larger body of Vedic information, as the Vedas was already in its present form long before your quote was made that it was 'too difficult to understand'. So why would you concern yourself with a larger body of work, when you know nothing of the shorter body of work for this age?
ReplyDeleteYour lineage is only about 500 years old, it is rather young, of course I understand you all desperately try to make it much older and trace back lineages that there is actually no evidence to support. But in reality it is quite young and acts like a young religion.
ReplyDelete